Tv for gaming

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Tv for gaming
July 21st, 2013, 5:45 pm

I'm going to be buying a new tv, used just about only for gaming. At first, I was going to go with LED but I've been hearing plasma is better for gaming. The video transfer rate is said to be much higher. I thought it would be good to gather some extra opinions and advice.
What type of TV would be good? What brand types should I look for? Anything specific to look out for? I'm currently thinking LED 1080 120 hz but open to advice/suggestions.
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Re: Tv for gaming
July 21st, 2013, 8:56 pm

Rule #1: anything but sony
Rule #2: see rule #1

If you go LCD/LED definitely go for the higher refresh rate. I know way back plasmas were actually bad for gaming due to easy burn-in but that has since been resolved. You can probably go find some discussions amongst videophiles and see what technical reasons people would have in the plasma vs LCD vs LED debate. I'm rather interested in this topic too as in a couple months I'm likely to get a new living room TV... possibly 2 :D
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Re: Tv for gaming
July 21st, 2013, 9:02 pm

I've seen not issues with LED Ts for gaming. LEDs themselves switch instantly and are about the same speed as Plasma, but the LED is just a backlight, so you are at the mercy of the LCD panel. Most TVs now use 120Hz or 240Hz which means that the LCD is fast enough tow keep up even at 120 or 240 frames per second. So that consideration is no longer an issue, it used to be a problem on slower LCDs with ghosting. The one thing about newer LED backlit screens is that they include some kind of imageprocessing to make moving images steadier and smoother. Depending on the brand this will be good or bad. Good means your picture quality will be great and things will look solid. Bad means that you'll see motion blur and slight delays due to video processing. Most TVs at the 120 Hz level are good enough for there to be no issue there. But, as ever you get what you pay for, so beware the cheaper end of the market unless you have good reviews.
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Re: Tv for gaming
July 22nd, 2013, 8:22 am

i have a samsung 40" LED 3D HD tv. works great even have my pc running on it :D
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Re: Tv for gaming
July 22nd, 2013, 12:47 pm

At 120Hz, the minimum refresh time for the panel is 8.33 ms, but if your LCD actually takes that long to refresh you'll have ghosting. Most panels these days refresh in the 5ms range, some as fast as 2ms which effectively means that there is no appreciable switching time, and frames change crisply with no ghosting or smearing. LED backlights giev a nice crisp light, and the best screens use local dimming which allows the LED backlight to vary the intensity of the backlight to increase the contrast.

Response time is probably the single most important feature you are looking at. A panel with a slow response time will have a poor image regardless of the rest of the features.

One thing to be aware of is that panels have fundamental limits, the apparent contrast ratio and color depth affect the refresh time. I can't remember the in-outs of why, but some panel manufacturers will sacrifice refresh speed to increase color depth or dynamic contrast. Of course the flipside is true also, some panels do not have the super high contrast ratios, or color depth, but refresh faster. As usual in this you get what you pay for, the mode expensive s use more expensive panels that are better made and use technology that allows color depth and/or contrast to be higher without sacrificing refresh speed.

Dynamic contrast is also affected by the video processor, so if your TV is doing a lot of noise cancellation, motion flow processing and dynamic contrast (and even 3D), there could be some lag between the image and the source. When simply viewing that is not apparent or a problem, but when interacting - like in a game - you have to compensate for it. Sometimes it's better to turn off the 'tricks' that the V has and go with the plain image rather than the enhanced one the TV is capable of manufacturing.

Color depth is tricky because it's not always talked about in the same terms. On a PS3 for example, it talks about Full RGB and limited RGB. Basically what it comes down to is the number of colors displayed, and how the TV's video processor handles things. In limited range, the processor cuts off the lightest and darkest end of the color spectrum effectively limiting the number of shades in the very bright and dark ends of the color spectrum. Most people don't notice, and most panels don't display those well due to poor contrast. But if your panel has a good native contrast ratio and full RGB, your picture quality will likely be very good. With full RGB (sometimes called a color gamut) the will not cut off any shades of colors and will display the full range. Some s with weak video processors will implement limited RGB to reduce the processing load (fewer colors = fewer bits per pixel = less memory and CPU required for video processing).

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When selecting a LED/LCD TV look for the response time, you want something 5ms or lower if you can (lower = better). Contrast ratio is tricky, some list the dynamic contrast ratio, do not be fooled by this, look for the native contrast ratio of the panel (10,000:1 for example), not the dynamic contrast (sometimes as high as 1,000,000:1). Color depth is tricky also (as I described above), you want a TV that is capable of the full RGB range (wide color gamut), not the limited range.

Plasma TVs have an inherent advantage in terms of response time and contrast. Plasma screens used to suffer burn in issues, but that has been solved using a wonderful thing called orbiting, or pixel rotation, to prevent any individual pixel being on for an excessive time and thus creating image burn-in. LED/LCDs are physically thinner and lighter, but Plasma's probably have the edge in picture quality - although the better LED/LCDs are good enough that no one can really see that. Plasma s are not as common now because the manufacturing costs of LCDs has dropped like a stone over the years.
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Re: Tv for gaming
August 20th, 2013, 8:30 am

Thanks for all that good info Kos. Now I'm very seriously pondering a new TV. I'm gonna share what's up with my current TV followed by additional questions.

I never really noticed any under-performance of my current TV in gaming until now. I've had it 5.5 years, I don't have a model number for exact reference, it's a Samsung 46" with 60Hz refresh and I think 20,000:1 contrast ratio. The visuals were great for the games I've played a lot since getting it, which include GTA4, Oblivion, FF13 and 13-2, and of course WKC. Now, with FF14 I'm seeing some limitations. Anything with a quick transition, such as rotating the camera or even somebody running by me (or me running by somebody) is a little blurry. It's bad enough where I don't readily notice who I'm passing if we're both moving, and when searching for something I often can't see the target when moving the camera.

I'd say part of the problem is decaying eyesight as well, but that doesn't explain blurry transitions on the TV :p

So, just from initial looking at what's out there, I see TVs are advertised a little differently these days. I almost never see talk of contrast ratio now, and there is this new term called "CMR" that's often advertised instead. I've focused on LED so far and haven't looked into plasma yet. I know any of today's TV models will whoop my current TV in terms of sport/movie viewing. However, the bulk of my time is spent gaming. I've been informed that games are often developed to work well on a 60Hz TV, meaning anything higher isn't going to provide any benefit. Would having a 120Hz or higher TV provide a better visual experience with FF14?

Personally I find an improvement in picture quality is worth it for football watching alone, I'm just trying to gauge what exactly I should aim for. I'm typically one who aims for the best quality that's at the base of the typical exponential price curve. For example:

model 1, base model has a price of x
model 2, next step up in quality has a price of 1.1x
model 3, next step up has a price of 1.2x
model 4, next step up has a price of 1.75x

In that example I'd aim for model 3.
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Re: Tv for gaming
August 20th, 2013, 11:43 am

Yes, having a 120HZ or better screen helps in FFXIV for PS3 users. Hina plays on a 44-inch 120Hz LED/LCD screen, the TVs motion processing makes the picture silky smooth and solid, even if the frame rate of the game itself is a little lacking, that motion flow evens things out and it generally looks like a higher frame rate than the PS3 can push.
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Re: Tv for gaming
August 20th, 2013, 9:17 pm

Forgot to mention here I picked up a TV. Was a 40 inch Toshiba, 120 hz. With the 120 hz, I never saw any motion blur in the game despite all that flash going off (thought they were toning that down?) Stuff like CMR-Clear Motion Rate for Samsung, Scenes per Second, w/e the company calls it, is a lie. Be sure to look up the model number so you don't get cheezed into buying a 60hz. Samsung usually has a 6 in the 1000 digit of the model for 120 hz if I recall correctly. For example Samsung UN40F6300 would be a 120 hz while UN40F5550 would be a 60 hz. Both might be given a CMR of 120 but only one is truly 120hz. Use a reliable site to check the hz; don't have to buy from there, just to check. I used Best Buy, which is how I noticed the pattern of Samsungs. Was going to get one but saw a good deal on the Toshiba.
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Re: Tv for gaming
August 21st, 2013, 8:06 am

I noticed last night that CMR is a Samsung gimmick. When they did share the Hz, I noticed the CMR would be twice as much. So, by that rationale, any Samsung model that has my eye is 120Hz, given they are all 240 CMR... though one is stated to be 480 CMR. One day I'll go into a store and look at a bunch, see what really catches my eye. Then I'll find somewhere to buy it online to avoid sales tax, and get the thing to my house... a 46" or more TV won't fit in my car.
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Re: Tv for gaming
August 21st, 2013, 3:57 pm

So... I am highly partial toward Samsung as they've never done me wrong, and would be my first choice here. However their CMR gimmick is starting to piss me off. Where can I get reliable stats on TVs for my research? I did a simple search on 1 particular Samsung model (UN46F6400AF) and find anywhere from 120 to 480Hz for the refresh rate (Samsung just says CMR 480). I think I've located the corresponding LG model, LG 47LN5400. If there is some "go to" site for comparing various TVs please do share. thanks
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Re: Tv for gaming
August 21st, 2013, 5:21 pm

The highest I've seen on a Samsung is 240Hz, but we only have it on a 60" and a 65" tv (and it definitely is Hz, not CMR). I've never seen CMR listed as a stat. I guess the only way to know for sure is to bug your local electronics store to allow you to look at the tv boxes (Walmart 'fact tags' have been wrong a few times)...
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Re: Tv for gaming
September 3rd, 2013, 6:52 pm

I was looking at the TVs in Best Buy today, and from half way across the store even my eyes gravitated to 1 TV on the wall... it's a little expensive but it's gonna be hard not to buy this one.

Samsung UN46F8000BF
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