What's the deal with....

This is the place for Chillin', kicking back and relaxing. General chat from WKC. Play nice.
What's the deal with....
March 14th, 2013, 2:36 pm

What's the deal with buffing knights? Since when did they become a mandatory part of battle? And why do players with buffing knights sometimes feel that no one else should use their knight? Does a GR30 part even *need* a buffing knight?
Escape reality, live the fantasy! - Louisoix Leveilleur
Image
User avatar
KOSMOS
Neko Master
Neko Master
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:24 pm
Location: A small corner of sanity in an insane world
FFXIV Avatar: Kosmos Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Gladiator/Conjurer
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
FFXIV Linkshell: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: KOSMOS


Re: What's the deal with....
March 14th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Should be an interesting discussion...
Image

ℒℴѵℯ, Hina ~ Neko Hime-sama, NekomimisFTW ˚₊✩‧₊(⌯͒o̶̶̷̤ ꀾ o̴̶̷̤⌯͒)* ✩‧₊˚

“Everyone smiles, when they are with you. Please...go and help people in my place. Share your happiness with them." ~ Yui, SAO
User avatar
Hinagiku
Grand Neko
Grand Neko
 
Posts: 711
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:26 pm
FFXIV Avatar: Hinagiku Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Healer & Weaver
FFXIV Free Company: NekomimisFTW
FFXIV Linkshell: NekomimisFTW
WKC Avatar: Hinagiku


Re: What's the deal with....
March 14th, 2013, 2:51 pm

It's not mandatory nor needed, but is certainly useful and makes things more fun for the other members of the party. Have to say, with my bow when I made the ark into a buffer (my pink/purple Buffy) I stopped having regrets about picking up the thing. It stops me from swearing when I accidentally hit the triangle button too :p

Still, buffers shouldn't throw a stink about non-buffers.
Haggar
Neko Steward
Neko Steward
 
Posts: 798
Joined: March 4th, 2013, 10:23 am
Location: Maryland
FFXIV Avatar: Haggar Drinksalott
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: Haggar/Bertha


Re: What's the deal with....
March 14th, 2013, 3:16 pm

Personally I think they are fine on certain quests. They can be helpful, especially in a long battle (bounty perhaps) or as B says - just as a 'lift' to everyone. I think it is a luxury, not a necessity. Heck, my own knight is set up as a buffing knight cause I am a better fighter on foot. So if I do ever knight (even if by accident as B said), it won't be a major issue.

But I don't think it is the be all/end all of a fight, nor do I think it is a player's greatest asset. I don't think that the whole party is there to 'serve' the knight or cater for it, nor do I think that it should become the only one who gets to knight ... ever. If so, then why does anyone else have an ark in the first place?

I have seen players knight when they felt they were not as strong as others in the party, like in the boss battle. The knighted so they felt more secure in not dying (probably). Several players would yell at them to revert so they could knight instead. I have been in quests where people have said that if anyone at all knights, they will quit the quest. I have seen people who say that if GA is used they will abort. All "knight" issues, sorry of some went off topic.

I just think that if there is a plan in place ahead of time, the party should stick to it. But it shouldn't be the same one every time. And if someone knights and it is not going to be a huge issue, just let it go. Because if it is another person knights up to either fight/buff/GA, lower lvl perhaps - they will get reverted on their own anyway and then someone can have a go. What is the worst that can happen? A failed quest? :D

There is just far too much stink being thrown these days full stop. Let's just have fun & stop being so serious. :nambara:





Just my two cents.
Image

ℒℴѵℯ, Hina ~ Neko Hime-sama, NekomimisFTW ˚₊✩‧₊(⌯͒o̶̶̷̤ ꀾ o̴̶̷̤⌯͒)* ✩‧₊˚

“Everyone smiles, when they are with you. Please...go and help people in my place. Share your happiness with them." ~ Yui, SAO
User avatar
Hinagiku
Grand Neko
Grand Neko
 
Posts: 711
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:26 pm
FFXIV Avatar: Hinagiku Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Healer & Weaver
FFXIV Free Company: NekomimisFTW
FFXIV Linkshell: NekomimisFTW
WKC Avatar: Hinagiku


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 2:20 am

well, the way i see it, it makes stuff go a bit smoother. i wouldnt bother wasting so much turns manually buffing myself. it shouldnt be a problem though, if i know theres a buffing knight, i wait till he knighted and reverted before i knight up. buffing knights dont stay up for long in higher gr quests you will have your chance to use your own knight. the main thing is know when to use your knight. for example, dont use one when someone is tanking an enemy, it draws enemies away from the tank.
User avatar
John
N4Life
N4Life
 
Posts: 108
Joined: March 1st, 2013, 1:32 am


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 7:23 am

It's helpful but by no means necessary or the only way to build your knight. People shouldn't be getting upset over trivial things, unless a plan was discussed beforehand and someone didn't follow it. I remember when WKC2 was just a thought, I was like eww, I don't want to have to play a knight. I prefer my avatar. I still feel that way.
"Each friend represents a world in us, a world not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born."
User avatar
Rhapsody
N4Life
N4Life
 
Posts: 336
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 2:26 pm
Location: Serendair
FFXIV Avatar: Gemma Shahrizai
FFXIV Class/Race: THM/Hyur
FFXIV Free Company: Last Order (Test)
FFXIV Linkshell: Nekomimis FTW


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 1:03 pm

I agree Fawn, I am far stronger on the ground too. One thing I see with buffing nights is players that use them will use 0mp attacks to quickly generate 7AC so they can knight to buff the party again. I'm not convinced that spamming fast 0mp attacks it the best use of a GR30 player's time even if it leads to the buffing knight buffing the party. I mean if the party knows it's job, an Axe player can buff the party's attack in a single turn, while anyone with sufficient divine skills can fortify or mana barrier the whole party in a single turn.

To me the buffing knight is about one thing, and one thing only, allowing unmodded GR30 players to do higher damage - it's almost like we're trying to keep up with the modders with damage; and the buffing knight is a way to do that since the attack buff stacks with other attack buffs. I just see the buffing knight as more of a distraction since the player with the buffing knight is effectively devoting their turns to buffing, rebuilding AC and buffing again. It reminds me a little of when Axe players had the attitude of demanding that a mage or bow keep them provisioned and alive so they could max out their damage. I don't care if an axe does 6-7K instead of 9K damage because they have to maintain their own HP higher to stay alive, and I don't care if they have to pop the occasional mana pot to keep their MP high. I don't see the point of tying down a mage who can do anything from 2-4K (or more) with a 15 point attack just to enable max damage from an Axe player.
:???:

With the buffing knight it seems like a party has to devote a player to the buffing knight, just so we can stroke our egos by doing a bit more damage.

I also feel like it's a way of quickening the pace of a quest, and speeding through it. Again, I don't see the point in that, we're playing a game, the point of the game is the questing, simply speed running quests as quickly as possible seems like a rather mechanical way to play. If questing is simply about completing it in the most efficient way possible, it seems like that speed may come at the cost of the actual 'play'.

I'm not saying that a buffing knight is always a waste of a player's time or should never be used, but I don't think it's something that should be seen as a default option or somehow mandatory to the point where other players feel that they cannot knight up because they's be preventing the buffing knight from verto-ing. I remember when I first saw the buffing knights being used. I hadn't quested outside the guild in a long while, and it was a completely new tactic to me. Since then, I've come to understand the benefits and limits of the tactic. I don't see a great benefit for a GR30 party in any situation with the exception of fighting a difficult bounty on an FMQ. But to me it does seem like both within our guild and in random questing, the use of the buffing knight has almost become the go-to tactic. If people know their classes and work as a team, there should be no need for a buffing knight.
:stars:

All that said, it's fun to occasionally be able to hit things for 5K+ with a sword, or do over 2500 with a single 4MP attack. But that's done with all the right conditions. Axe debuffs on the enemy, twin blades, daredevil stance, attack buff by the knight (or Axe), the correct elemental and physical attack affinity to exploit the monster's weaknesses, a tail wind, on a sunny day going down hill with the brakes off...
:evil:

One thing I want to say right now is that for anyone with a buffing knight (and I know that Hina's knight is set up to buff), I'm not criticizing you, or your choice to play a buffing knight. I'm simply questioning the tactic and why it's become so frequently used.
Escape reality, live the fantasy! - Louisoix Leveilleur
Image
User avatar
KOSMOS
Neko Master
Neko Master
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:24 pm
Location: A small corner of sanity in an insane world
FFXIV Avatar: Kosmos Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Gladiator/Conjurer
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
FFXIV Linkshell: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: KOSMOS


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 2:10 pm

If someone is playing in a manner that their only benefit to the party is using an ark buff, then you should ignore them in the quest and not quest with them again. There is nothing that needs a dedicated ark buffer. Use it only if you use your class in its normal capacity before and after.

I think apex is the best way to illustrate how I use mine. Open below if you want the overview of my strategy
[+] stuff
- before battle, use 2 charge 3 pots, have a charge 4 in my inv
- in battle, play as normal bow, supporting/damaging where appropriate
- shortly after madoras is grounded, make sure dark shot and hurricane song are fresh
- when he puts up his barrier, ark up to buff, and use barrier crush. revert
- use mana 4 (or elixir depending on hp), then charge IV, resume normal play

- start of madoras ark fight, do normal bow stuff, should reach 7ac by the time he enrages
- ark up when he enrages to buff everybody, usually times well to break finis too. revert
- use mana 4 (or elixir depending on hp), do normal bow stuff to the end.

While I throw down the buffs twice, 2 other things happen:
- first time: breaking the barrier puts melees back on track
- second time: if I miss the break of finis, everybody is fated and it'll do 0 damage. If I hit the break, bonus


Above is the only time I actually plan to use my buffy, but even then if it doesn't happen, no biggie. Other times I'll typically use it in the boss fight when just the last critter is standing, beyond that it's usually accidental.

The ark buff also goes along with my style of play (and similar with many lollies): kill... fast! I don't remember any of my first bounty kills, but I remember the gog magog that died in under 60 seconds, and the gargantua that could never get an attack in... both thanks to my pink and purple buffy :D
Haggar
Neko Steward
Neko Steward
 
Posts: 798
Joined: March 4th, 2013, 10:23 am
Location: Maryland
FFXIV Avatar: Haggar Drinksalott
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: Haggar/Bertha


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 2:15 pm

Like I said earlier, mine is set up that way because I rarely use it otherwise. Heck, I rarely use it a all...so much so that I forget it is there. lol But I have it if it is ever needed (or wanted just for fun) and with it being used for buffing, at least it has some use.

Kos' post above talking about axes and other 'tank' classes and how some have depended on mages/bows for support lead to another fun subject for debate... If everyone is GR30 - a good GR30, anyone should be able to be a tank in a quest, so why should any one player or class be relegated to just supporting the one player?

But, maybe I will post that elsewhere when I get a chance. I don't want to go off-topic. Though it is a similar point. :???:
Image

ℒℴѵℯ, Hina ~ Neko Hime-sama, NekomimisFTW ˚₊✩‧₊(⌯͒o̶̶̷̤ ꀾ o̴̶̷̤⌯͒)* ✩‧₊˚

“Everyone smiles, when they are with you. Please...go and help people in my place. Share your happiness with them." ~ Yui, SAO
User avatar
Hinagiku
Grand Neko
Grand Neko
 
Posts: 711
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:26 pm
FFXIV Avatar: Hinagiku Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Healer & Weaver
FFXIV Free Company: NekomimisFTW
FFXIV Linkshell: NekomimisFTW
WKC Avatar: Hinagiku


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 2:17 pm

Situational use of a buffing ark, I can see the reason for that. But only if it's incidental to the way that a player plays. I'd rather have a party with 6 strong players each of a different class doing their thing together than a party of 6 with 1 or more AC gathering for an ark buff leaving 4-5 players doing the rest on their own...There are also times when I want to knight up myself either for fun, or because it seems like a good tactic at the time - not always the best reason in the world I know...

Oh...btw "pink and purple buffy" what do you call it? "Pinky & Purply"?
Escape reality, live the fantasy! - Louisoix Leveilleur
Image
User avatar
KOSMOS
Neko Master
Neko Master
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:24 pm
Location: A small corner of sanity in an insane world
FFXIV Avatar: Kosmos Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Gladiator/Conjurer
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
FFXIV Linkshell: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: KOSMOS


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 2:18 pm

Hinagiku wrote:Kos' post above talking about axes and other 'tank' classes and how some have depended on mages/bows for support lead to another fun subject for debate... If everyone is GR30 - a good GR30, anyone should be able to be a tank in a quest, so why should any one player or class be relegated to just supporting the one player?

But, maybe I will post that elsewhere when I get a chance. I don't want to go off-topic. Though it is a similar point. :???:


Yes, new post lets debate that one!

/threaddrift
Haggar
Neko Steward
Neko Steward
 
Posts: 798
Joined: March 4th, 2013, 10:23 am
Location: Maryland
FFXIV Avatar: Haggar Drinksalott
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: Haggar/Bertha


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 3:30 pm

KOSMOS wrote:Oh...btw "pink and purple buffy" what do you call it? "Pinky & Purply"?


Just "Buffy" ... they don't give you too many chars for naming those things :D
Haggar
Neko Steward
Neko Steward
 
Posts: 798
Joined: March 4th, 2013, 10:23 am
Location: Maryland
FFXIV Avatar: Haggar Drinksalott
FFXIV Free Company: Nekomimis FTW!
WKC Avatar: Haggar/Bertha


Re: What's the deal with....
March 15th, 2013, 4:08 pm

and here I thought you were a Vampire slayer fan. :D
Image

ℒℴѵℯ, Hina ~ Neko Hime-sama, NekomimisFTW ˚₊✩‧₊(⌯͒o̶̶̷̤ ꀾ o̴̶̷̤⌯͒)* ✩‧₊˚

“Everyone smiles, when they are with you. Please...go and help people in my place. Share your happiness with them." ~ Yui, SAO
User avatar
Hinagiku
Grand Neko
Grand Neko
 
Posts: 711
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 11:26 pm
FFXIV Avatar: Hinagiku Meishou
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Healer & Weaver
FFXIV Free Company: NekomimisFTW
FFXIV Linkshell: NekomimisFTW
WKC Avatar: Hinagiku


Re: What's the deal with....
May 29th, 2013, 5:12 pm

If I were to rename my knight, it would be TacoBatman XD
My Realm of the Mad God main account:

Image
User avatar
aljotron
Neko
Neko
 
Posts: 42
Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 3:39 pm
FFXIV Avatar: Aljotron Thedude
FFXIV Class/Race: Mi'qote Warrior
FFXIV Free Company: NekomimisFTW
WKC Avatar: aljotron


Re: What's the deal with....
June 1st, 2013, 5:33 am

ok, i don't know about a buffing knight, but am i the only one here who uses their knight as a Decoy for the team? Marina IV can defend alot better than i can, yet i eclipse her damage output by a longshot. :???:
Iron Courage. need I say more?
User avatar
Sapphire
Neko
Neko
 
Posts: 311
Joined: April 22nd, 2013, 2:53 am
Location: A World where i finally belong.
FFXIV Avatar: Sapphire Harushii
FFXIV Class/Race: Miqo'te Jack-of-all-trades in training
FFXIV Free Company: NekomimisFTW!
WKC Avatar: Sapphire



Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


cron